Robhob's låda

Jag blir rätt fashinerad över hur folk reagerar när man säger att man skall sterilisera sig. Man brukar få de mest häpnadsväckande responser och inlägg. Detta ämne är tydligen mer tabu än jag kunde föreställa mig. Vi lever ju trots allt snart i tjugohundratiotalet. Eller?

Så jag får genast några reflektioner över de vanligaste reaktionerna.


"Har du verkligen tänkt igenom det (här)"?

Alltså. Ja! Men man undrar ju lite snabbt vilket intryck man gjort på sina medmänniskor om de tror att man bara kommer på sådär att "Jag vet, jag tror jag skall sterilisera mig, det verkar kul och trendigt". Klart som 17 att man tänkt igenom det hela. Barn innebär ett ansvar och åtagande på minst 18 år av sitt liv, något som jag helt enkelt inte är beredd på att ta, hur bra förälder än mina medmänniskor uppfattat mig att komma vara. Genast dyker då den följande kommentaren upp:

"Men det innebär också en massa glädje!"

Men det där är väl ändå det sista uttömmande standardargumentet när inget fungerar? Observera ordet också! Det här känns lite som att folk försöker övertyga sin egen förträfflighet att glömma allt annat gällande "inte-så-kul-att-vara-förälder-alla-gånger". Som bortblåst är de sömnlösa koliknätterna; lika försvunnet är trotsåldern, oron när parveln försvunnit långt efter överenskommen hemgångstid, övertygelsen till knatten att läxorna måste läsas oavsett hur tråkiga de är, tonårsrebellismen med slag i dörrar "när man inte fattar något". Finns en massa annat som inte är så kul att hantera som förälder. Nej, jag betvivlar inte att föräldrarskap kan innebära glädje. Också. Eller som en förälder faktiskt ungefärligt uttryckte det till mig: "95% jobb och 5% ren glädje".

"Det är dumt att stänga dörrar"

Jo, vissa dörrar kanske är dumma att stänga. Men låter man sin lägenhetsdörr stå på vid gavel så kan man i dagens läge räkna med att få lägenheten tömd av snälla människor, och dessutom inte få ut ett öre för hjälpen av realkapitalstömmandet. Nu kanske det inte är politiskt korrekt att jämföra barn med kriminella element, men vem sa att jag var politiskt korrekt alla gånger.

Och så har vi en underbar kombination av ångest och biologiska fakta - tänk vad folk kan blanda ihop argument till en soppa för att hävda att vi lever i ett onormativt samhälle:

"Men tänk om du ångrar dig?" "Män är ju fertila tills de dör - så du har ju chans att bli pappa hur länge som helst, inte samma sak för kvinnor".

Hmmm. Läs kombinationen två gånger, och se'n dessutom kombinationen i argument nummer två. Tänk efter en gång till och sug på karamellen så kommer jag åter till det sista argumentet och kvinnlig biologi versus dagens normativitet.

Alltså. Om jag mot all förmodan skulle ångra mig så finns det gott om oönskade barn här i världen. Bl.a. har den katolska kyrkan sett till det, bland många andra instanser. Nej, jag ger inte mycket för religion. Alltså så finns det en hel del barn att adoptera till en person som förhoppningsvis tänkt igenom sitt beslut att bli förälder, något som jag tror oftare stämmer på adoptivföräldrar än biologiska föräldrar som har blivit övertygade med argument som "glädje också".

Och vad det gäller argument två. Ja, män är oftast fertila - mer eller mindre - fram tills det är dags att hamna sex fot under (något som jag planerar att undvika - en helt annan historia). Dock så försämras kvalitén på spermierna rätt mycket under årens lopp, och faktum är att det blir större risk för genetiska skador ju äldre fadern är - om nu ens befruktning är möjlig. Mer om det här (på engelska).

Men låt oss nu ta den socialt normativa aspekten på att kombinationsargumentet tyvärr falerar i de flesta fall i kombination med den medicinska aspekten:

Många känner till alla hemligheter kring kvinnans fertilitet och ungefärliga åldrar. Men en snabb repetition:

Första menstruation, vanligtvis runt 13 år, men kan börja tidigare fall ner till 6-7 år har ibland konstaterats om än sällsynt: Kvinnan kan bli gravid.
Fullt fertil kvinna, vanligtvis runt 21 år: Kvinnan har fullt mogna slemkörtlar o.s.v. och har störst sannolikhet att bli gravid, 86%.

Kvinna vid 25 års ålder: 78% chans att bli gravid.
Kvinna vid 30 års ålder: 63% chans att bli gravid.
Kvinna vid 35 års ålder: 52% chans att bli gravid.

Efter 35 års ålder löper kvinnan avsevärt större risk för fosterskador och genetiska problem vid konception.

Nu kommer det intressanta. Låt oss leka med tanken att en man vid 80 års ålder får för sig att "Jag vet, jag tror jag skall skaffa barn". Om nu mot allt förmodan, efter år av försök, denna man skulle få en kvinna gravid, så kan man fråga sig i dagens normativa samhälle hur många kvinnliga 21-åringar som är villiga att sära på benen för en 80-årig man? Vi är inte där, och sådana åldersskillnader brukar bli väl omskrivna som äckliga undantag, gubbsjuka och kommentarer som "hon måste vara blåst". Men större reflektioner om det är inte vad det här inlägget handlar om, det tar jag en annan gång.

"Men du är ju så ung":

Ja, jag kanske många gånger faktiskt uppfattas som ung, beroende på att jag faktiskt vet vad uttrycket "bejaka barnet inom mig" innebär för mig. För mig är det att bejaka mitt liv och vad jag vill göra, ständigt nyfiken. Det innebär inte att jag inte är vuxen nog att fatta mina egna beslut.

Jag tror det här med manlig sterilisering syvende och sist handlar om att "vara en riktig man". Man kan helt enkelt inte vara det om man inte kan befrukta en kvinna, normativt sett. Jag har hört att en bekants bekant just sagt det som argument över en av rädslorna att sterilisera sig, trots en ålder på över 50 år. Jag är lika fashinerad över att många tror att en (stor) del av manligheten beror på hur många spermier som kan lämna kroppen genom urinröret, vilket i sig "bara" är (max) 20% av ejakulationen. Vi talar inte om kastrering, för höga bövelen! "Apparaten" fungerar lika bra som innan, och rösten blir inte ljusare för att jag låter kapa av sädesledarna. Testosteronet fortsätter att produceras, jösses in i mina da'r! :D



Så, är det så konstigt att jag valt att sterilisera mig, trots att "jag bara är barnet" på 39 år? :)

Over'n'out.

Lika intelligent som "Det finns mördare i Sverige - Vi har listan på städer".

Det här är inte ens en groda.
Det här är inte ens låg humor.
Det här är lägre än glocalnet.
Tragikomik. :D

Over'n'out

På vadå? Jo, att skapa en grupp på Facebook, men än så länge har jag inte kommit på något bra namn, utan att vara alltför negativ. Bojkott låter så tragiskt, även om det är det det handlar om.

Alltså, jag tycker det är dags att Svenska folket börjar vara kreativa med sin konsumentmakt, slutar klaga på plastbitarnas kostnad och handlar genom att sluta handla CD, DVD, blueray och biobesök alltså. Kanske en utopi, men det skulle vara skönt att se mediebolagen att vika sig för deras ålderdomliga distributionssätt och sälja oss konsumenter vad vi vill ha, inte vad de tror sig veta vad vi vill ha.

Over'n'out

... var danskursen över. Det har varit givande, och några nya bekanta har man fått, men tyvärr inte bytt ut nummer och så. Se'n att det kan bero på att vissa inte varit närvarande är ju en annan femma. :P

"Jag har ingen TV, men jag har ett liv"

Over'n'out

Ibland undrar man om det här med bröllop inte är lite väl hype:at? För de som inte är eremiter har det väl knappast undgått att kunglikheten HKM kronprinsessan Victoria blivit friad på?

Att man sedan undrar över tonfallet  - om man bara läst löpet på svenska pravda och sexpressen, så kan man ju bli småleende på läpparna?

Uppgiven: Ja ja ja jaaa. Lilla bubben, fattade du äntligen?
Högfärdig: Ja ja ja. Skulle en förlovningsring vara något att komma med?
Erotisk: Ja ja ja. <piiip>
Pilsnerfilmsmunter: Jajja ja!
Irriterat: Ja; ja; ja! OK då!
Skånskt släpande erotiskt: Jah jah jah <piip>
Sportkommentatorextas: Ja ja ja jaaaaaaaaa!
Robotmekaniskt: Jaah jaah jaah.

Nä, giftermål  och heteronormativitet är nog rätt passé nu. För Sverige i tiden, skulle det nog sett helt annorlunda ut. Men som en Amerikan säkert skulle uttryckt det: "We're going metric - inch by inch".

Over'n'out

... kommer gå i dansens tecken. Nu har man börjat en bugg-kurs för nybörjare. Det är trevligt att riktigt få nöta in stegen, precis vad man behöver. Faktum är att det är den första danskursen jag tar på ~19 år. Bara en så'n sak!



Over'n'out

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Kvinna 21
Kategori: Kvinna söker Man
Ort: [censur]
Län: [censur]
Inlagd: Idag [censur]
Visad: 494 ggr
Svar: 19 st.
ANNONSTEXT: [sedvanligt kontaktannonsgrejs] och män över 30 behöver inte bemöda sig om att höra av sig. jag är inte intresserad av att ha sex med någon som kunnat vara min pappa. till er andra puss
---

Alltså, jag börjar tycka synd om hennes farsa som blev utsatt för en kvinnlig pedofil när han var nio och han gjorde förövaren på smällen. Eller missuppfattade jag något?

Over'n'out

Det var ingen tumör, men värken är ju kvar. Och historien fortsätter på vad det kan vara.

Over'n'out

Tänkte dela med mig av den, eftersom den så väl tar upp en av de starkaste normerna i vårt samhälle idag.



Del 1:



Del 2:





Over'n'out

... är det dags att tala om för läkaren att han kanske misstänker att jag har en hjärntumör. Eller något sådant. :D

Extra tidigt i säng ikväll med andra ord!

Kram på äääär!

Over'n'out

Darren Brown och Dirigenten
Darren Brown och Raggningsrepliker
Darren Brown och Billig fylla

Over'n'Out

Värdar är bra konstiga, speciellt i allmännyttan. När man själv föreslår förbättringar, då blir det blankt nej, trots att det inte kommer kosta dem ett öre. Det skall vara 17 att man inte kan få byta en dörr med grannen, och göra om från högerhängd till vänsterhängd. Att dessutom man får ett skrikandes "NEJ" gör ju inte en gladare precis.

Nu har man blandat in hyresgästföreningen. Får man inte hjälp där, så kan de räkna med en medlem mindre, sista chansen de får.

Bostads- eller äganderätt lockar mer och mer.

Over'n'out

... och snart helg.

Nästa vecka blir det till att chockera doktorn med självdiagnoser och sådant där.

Annars så har man ju bestämt sig att anmäla sig till buggkurs en timme varje måndag. Det skall bli skoj. :)

Over'n'out

... att skicka ett brev till en hel del i Litauens parlament.

---
Dear mp's.

As a citizen of your neighbouring country Sweden, I am truly worried about the information censoring laws to minors, that seems to threat the freedom of information to minors in your country.

http://www.qx.se/samhalle/8887/informationsforbud-pa-vag-i-litauen (news link in Swedish).
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9907.html (news link in English)



If you intend to censor information about any sexuality - or other things you might see fit 'immoral' - to minors, I must ask you some questions:

Is it not true, that your country was under Soviet jurisdiction less than two decades ago? If so, is it not true that the information that was available to the citizens were Pravda, the so-called 'truth' of the Soviet dictatorship?

Is it not true that - less than a century ago - you were invaded by a country that:

Had an youth organization forming their youngsters thoughts into prejudice, racism, homophobia and xenophobia - among many things?
Practiced book burning to control their citizens thought?
Practiced ethnic and homosexuality cleansing by genocide?




I also find your often homophobic and xenophobic reasoning disturbing, when I read what you have answered with your position regarding the Lituanian Catholic churh harsch statment, that "homosexuality is a perversion". Therefore, I would like you to answer the questions directed to each of you below - or read my comments about your answers.

You can find it in the link below.

http://www.atviri.lt/index.php/lithuanian_mps_about_homosexuality/1673

 

"Petras Auštrevičius: "This statement by the church hierarchy shows the continuity of their position. I support and agree with the opinion of the church hierarchy.""

Mr. Auštrevičius: Then I must ask you, what is your position about Sharia laws? To make a parallel: Do you welcome the Catholic church to incorporate their complete bible interpretation into your constitution?


"Audronis Ažubalis: "I agree with the Church's position. I find it completely acceptable.""

Mr. Ažubalis: Do you find it acceptable with the Catholic Church position regarding sexual transmitted deceases, i.e. not to use condoms?


"Petras Baguška: "I support the position of the Church. Traditional values are what make it especially dear to me.""

Mr. Baguška: How interesting. Are you pursuing the old traditional values of Perkunas, Saule, Menulis and Zemyna as well?


"Rima Baškienė: "Homosexuality is caused by a psychological disorder, and it is a deviation from the norm. The Church has the right to state this fact.""

M(r)s Baškienė: I can't even comprehend your statement, it does not even belong in modern psychology. Which psychologist today is backed up with the global psychology community with such a diagnosis, I wonder?


"Rimantas Bašys: "I agree. This decision was made at the right time. In a sense, these people are sick. Of course, it is not their fault; but then the Church does not condemn them.""

Mr. Bašys: I suppose you mean that what has been researched is now totally wrong conclusions, regarding "these people"? How about the shape of the world, is it still flat?


"Danutė Bekintienė: "There is no need to explain why the number of homosexuals is growing. There is more tolerance, that is why. They promote their values even on television. Our tolerance is leading us into danger.""

M(r)s. Bekintienė: Can you please tell me what dangers those are? Is it that more people can love each other?


"Kazys Bobelis: "I absolutely agree with the Church. Lithuania does not need homosexuals. They are bringing shame on Lithuania by holding their congress in our country. Homosexuality is a disease that has to be treated.""

Mr. Bobelis: You are truly scaring me. Your comments makes me wonder about the Lithuanian people, that has elected someone with such intolerant opinion as you have. If anyone makes me feel that Lithuania is a disgraceful country, it's them. I truly hope that your opinion is not of the whole Lithuania. What's next that is not conform to your liking and should be forbidden, people with small noses?


"Antanas Bosas: "It goes without saying that homosexuality is a perversion. But we should avoid both extremes: excessive liberalism and harsh attacks.""

Mr. Bosas: What do you base that fact on?


"Bronius Bradauskas: "The Church is right. If these people are sick, let them keep their disease to themselves. Generally speaking, I find the phenomenon of homosexuality incomprehensible. I categorically object to the propagation of homosexuality.""

Mr. Bradauskas: Are you implying that what you don't see, does not exist? I personally find the phenomenon of prejudice incomprehensible.


"Vytautas Čepas: "The World Health Organization has removed homosexuality from its list of illnesses. Homosexuals have always been and will always be around. But when they demand not only tolerance but also love, this I neither understand nor agree with. In this sense I support the Church.""

Mr. Čepas: You seems to be confused. You both embrace the WHO ICD decision and the church proclamation?


"Vida Marija Čigriejienė: "Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm.""

M(r)s. Čigriejienė: What is the norm you are reffering to? Perhaps a mediation of a population; brown hair, 5"6' lenght, 2.3 children, 2.57 marriges/lifetime? Or the prejudice norm that everyone who differs from a fictive ideal of a citizen physical and psycological profile is a deviation? In the both case, the majority of any population is a deviation of the norm. So, is that a reason to call homosexuality a perverson?


"Julius Dautartas: "Here we are talking about Christian traditions, and traditions need to be strongly protected and defended. New winds are breaking a new path, and they often destroy many good things.""

Mr. Dautartas: When you are you reffering to the Christian traditions, I recall the nice traditions of Crusades and Inquisition. What were the good things you were reffering to? Are the threat of loosing control over the individual citizens privacy, thoughts and integrity one of them, perhaps?


"Rimantas Jonas Dagys: "The position of the Church is also my position. The trends that are now emerging in the world show that when it comes to tolerance we sometimes go too far. We need the maximum level of tolerance, but when sexual minorities want to become a kind of social institution, this is unacceptable. Making homosexuality into a social norm is, for me, unacceptable.""

Mr. Dagys: That's an interesting opinion. So, while your Church's precious Jesus speeks of being more tolerant, you want to set a ceiling of the tolerance level? I wonder, how many of the Lithuanian norms has not been influenced of non-Lithuanian thoughts and ideas? Hmm, Christianity, has that been in Lithuania forever?


"Kęstutis Daukšys: "I am a Catholic; therefore, I agree with all the positions of the Church.""

Mr. Daukšys: Well, at least you're honest. It is scary though, that you represent an other state (i.e. the Vatikan) than some of your citizens.


"Irena Degutienė: "I support the position of the Church. Homosexuals provoke and challenge society. They overemphasize themselves by demanding special rights, organizing parades, and sending manifestos. They consider themselves to be exceptional, demonstrate their sexual inclinations and then get angry if society does not accept them.""

M(r)s. Degutienė: So, they are not welcome in your idea of what a society should be? They should be out of the society, is that what you getting at? Are you going to purpose different levels of citizenship as well?


"Virginijus Domarkas: "I agree with the Church, although I would not use such drastic phrasing to define this phenomena. I consider homosexuality to be a deviation from the norm. Homosexuality negates the values that have been handed down from generation to generation.""

Mr Domarkas: So - if I understand you right - Lithuania is a state which values should not develop, and the values has not developed in many generations? Are you running companies in the same way in Lithuania?


"Vytautas Sigitas Draugelis: "My thinking is similar to that of the Church. These people may be ill, they may be unfortunate, but let them keep their sickness to themselves and not publicize it.""

Mr. Draugelis: So, if any of your citizens are not feeling well how their society treats them, they should not complain, but live in silence; homosexual or not?


"Arimantas Dumčius: "My view is in line with the old position of Tėvynės Sąjunga (the Homeland Union). One should not propagate a pathological condition. I say this as a physician.""

Mr Dumčius: Are you not as a physician aware of the WHO ICD?


"Kęstutis Glaveckas: "I support the position of the Church because I support classical traditions.""

Mr. Glaveckas: And for how long have they been classical? Is there no reason for your country to develop from classical traditions?


"Loreta Graužinienė: "There is nothing more that I can add. Of course, I would not go as far as saying that homosexuals are perverts. But in a Catholic country society should support traditional values.""

M(r)s. Graužinienė: Are prejudice, intolerance and xenophobia part of all those precious traditions?


"Petras Gražulis: "I support the position of the Church, there is no doubt about it. These people are indeed sick and perverted. They pose a threat to society because they molest children.""

Mr. Gražulis: Do some womans murder other people? Are all woman sick and perverted then? Do some drivers drive drunk? Are all drivers sick and perverted then? Is there not any heterosexual that molest children in Lithuania? If there are, all heterosexual Lithuanians must be sick and perverted, right? Please


"Vytautas Galvonas: "I would agree. Nature created man to be natural.""

Mr. Galvonas: Great! Homosexuality is present in nature!


"Vytautas Grubliauskas: "The Church has expressed its position in a public, straightforward and courageous way. As a citizen, I agree with this position. I am not categorically opposed to homosexuality - I accept it as an existing fact. However, it can be tolerated only up to a certain point, as long as it does not become a problem for society. We are not far from that point.""

Mr. Grubliauskas: So, your homosexual citizens are not - and should not be - a part of your society? Are they then not your citizens? Will they become persona non grata for real?


"Jonas Jagminas: "In a normal world relations between people should be normal. All normal people agree with this.""

Mr. Jagminas: So, can you please define normal for me? Few organisms are clones not affected to mutations - humans are certainly not one of them, right?


"Povilas Jakučionis: "I respect traditions. Homosexuality is acceptable neither to traditional families, nor to the Lithuanian nation.""

Mr. Jakučionis: So, are you going to make all Lithuanian homosexuals personas non gratas then? Or are you going to execute them?


"Donatas Jankauskas: "I am a practicing Catholic and agree with the position of the Church.""
"Juozas Jaruševičius: "I am a Catholic and agree with the Church.""
"Rasa Juknevičienė: "I agree with the position of the Church.""

Mr. Jankauskas, Mr. Jaruševičius and M(r)s Juknevičienė: So, I wondering if the Vatican is ruling the state of Lithuania, instead of some of the Lithuanian citizens?


"Jonas Juozapaitis: "I support the Church. After all, homosexuality is so immoral.""

Mr. Juozapaitis: Are not prejudice immoral?


"Vaclovas Karbauskis: "The Church has the right to state such a position. In my view, prohibition is not the right way. The aggressive behavior of homosexuals makes me angry. We should not tolerate it. Let them behave like all other members of the society in which they live.""

Mr. Karbauskis: If you are referring to any banned parades, that should visualize the pride of the Lithuanian LGBT persons, it's sad that you call a parade of joy aggressive.


"Algis Kašėta: "Since I am a Catholic, the opinion of the Church is usually acceptable for me. I am unequivocally against homosexual marriage.""

Mr. Kašėta: Since you are a Catholic, I'm not suprised.


"Gediminas Kirkilas: "I treat the statement of the Church with respect and agree with it. The clergy and statesmen must do everything to strengthen the traditional civilized family.""

Mr. Kirkilas: Even kill in the name of tradition?


"Egidijus Klumbys: "Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, and this topic does not merit further discussion.""

Mr. Klumbys: Is it better to hide from the wind of change?


"Romualda Kšanienė: "I support the position of the Church.""
"Rytas Kupčinskas: "The position of the Church on this issue is serious and very important.""

M(r)s. Kšanienė and Mr. Kupčinskas: Sorry to repeat myself, but I'm still faschinated that the Vatican rules in my neighbouring country?


"Andrius Kubilius: "In principle, I support the position stated by the Church hierarchy. One must bear in mind that the Church assesses the moral problems of society in a most profound way.""

Mr. Kubilius: And is love a moral problem?


"Saulius Lapenas: "We should observe the traditions of the country in which we live. I am not tolerant towards these minorities. Although I agree with the Church, I personally hold very moderate views.""

Mr. Lapenas: Are you tolerant to any minority of your citizens?


"Jonas Lionginas: "In principle, I agree with the position of the Church. Although I am a person with liberal views, I think that homosexual relations are not normal; they are some kind of health disorder.""
"Vincė Vaidevutė Margevičienė: "It is an illness rather than a perversion. For some people it causes suffering, for others it may bring pleasure. But it is not normal. I agree with the opinion of the Church hierarchy.""

Mr. Lionginas and M(r)s. Margevičienė: Are you aware of the WHO ICD?
M(r)s. Margevičienė: So, you agree to a patriarchial society as well?


"Antanas Matulas: "I agree with the Church. As a physician I would say that it is a health problem. I do not support marriage between homosexual people and their right to adopt children. This defies all logic.""

Mr. Matulas: So - as a physician - you disclaim WHO ICD?


"Algimantas Matulevičius: "I am against homosexuality. Or, to be more precise, against making it public. Let a man live with another man or a woman with another woman, but why should one make a spectacle out of it? This perverts society and, especially, children.""

Mr. Matulevičius: So, what you don't see does not exist? And the LGBT children in puberty might get perverted when they know that they are not alone?


"Valentinas Mazuronis: "On a state level this should not be regarded as normal. Meanwhile, homosexual relations are currently being popularized. The normal family is the basis of the state.""

Mr. Mazuronis: And for instance, how many children does your normal family have? 1.8? Should you cut off a childs arms to make the last 0.8 child, then?


"Stasys Mikelis: "I support the Church. It is certainly true that homosexuality is a perversion. This phenomenon is abnormal and should not be open to discussion.""

Mr. Mikelis: So, by not discussing the issue, there are no LGBT persons in Lithuania? To the sience and history, this 'phenomenon' dates back long before you and I was born, right?


"Gintautas Mikolaitis: "I agree with the Church. These people are sick and should be treated; we should not propagate homosexual families.""
"Zenonas Mikutis: "My views are somewhat more liberal than those of the Church. I think that homosexuality is a mental illness. Everything, after all, depends on the genes. However, what I do not tolerate is when homosexuals exalt themselves above other people. We people of normal orientation are being discriminated against.""
"Dangutė Mikutienė: "I support the position of the Church because family is a fundamental value of religion and the state. Homosexuality is an illness and a problem. Of course, we should not punish those people because they are afflicted with a mental disability.""


Mr. Mikolaitis, Mr Mikutis and M(r)s. Mikutienė: Ever heard of the WHO ICD? And how do you think you or your countrys physicians can 'cure' them, when no other country has?


"Algirdas Monkevičius: "I support the Church because it offers well-founded insights about potential dangers. I am inclined to tolerate homosexuals to a certain extent, as long as they do not try to impose their beliefs on a society that prefers traditional values.""

Mr. Monkevičius: Are you referring to the same church that ban condoms as a protection against STD?


"Viktoras Muntianas: "Although the Labor Party does not work hand in hand with the Church, what was said in this case is true. Homosexuality is a perversion.""

Mr. Muntianas: Have you heard of the WHO ICD?


"Vytas Navickas: "Homosexuality contradicts human nature.""

Mr. Navickas: And exactly what does human nature state for every human of the planet Tellus?


"Juozas Olekas: "I have not acquainted myself with the position of the Church, but my opinion on the problems of homosexuality is twofold. The World Health Organization has removed homosexuality from its list of illnesses.""

Mr. Olekas: And this removal makes it a problem in what way?


"Vladimiras Orechovas: "Relations shall be between men and women. If one engages in perverted relations with a person of the same sex, this should be kept quiet and other people should not be propagandized in favor of such a perversion.""

Mr. Orechovas: So, every person that is not conform to your ideal of the perfect human shall be silent in the way the person differs from the ideal? Are you the perfect human, or do you tell anyone of any of your flaws?


"Leokadija Počikovska: "I would not judge homosexuality as harshly as the Church. I think it is an illness. No person should be condemned, but I have children and want them to be of the traditional orientation and propagate the human race.""

M(r)s. Počikovska: And I suppose your world will fall apart, if one or more of your children after all your efforts to 'protect' them from any 'information influence' still will be a LGBT person?


"Skirmantas Pabedinskas: "Homosexuals are human beings and they have the right to exist. The Church, however, should have come up with such a statement a long time ago. It is alarming when homosexual relations are advertised to children. This may exert a harmful influence on the younger generation.""

Mr. Pabedinskas: So you honestly think less youngsters will be a LGBT person if they don't know the existance of LGBT persons, and isolate them from any facts that might be?


"Juozas Palionis: "Homosexuality is a clear deviation from the norm. In a democratic society such people may live freely as long as they do not conflict with the interests of society and, in particular, children.""

Mr. Palionis: So, if the interest of the society is to quiet - or worse - any LBGT movement, the LBGT movement should gladly comply without any complaint?


"Saulius Pečeliūnas: "I am not categorically against sexual minorities - I can tolerate them. Let them be as long as they do not disturb society and do not encroach upon its moral values. A minority may not dictate its conditions on a majority.""

Mr. Pečeliūnas: So better go silent in the darkness?


"Bronius Pauža: "I agree with the Church with all my heart. I am a Catholic and I cannot do otherwise.""

Mr. Pauža: And there starts all you prejudice?


"Alfredas Pekeliūnas: "I agree with the Church to some degree. I am against this immense openness - various parades, exceptional rights, marriages. This corrupts the young. Generally speaking, I do not tolerate homosexuals.""

Mr. Pekeliūnas: So, you are a open xenophobic? And how might a happy pride parade of love and understanding corrupt the young?


"Milda Petrauskienė: "There is a lot of truth in the Church's words. Homosexuals are people, just like the rest of us. Only they are unfortunate. However, I do not support their marriages, rights to adopt children, and I do not like it when they flaunt themselves in this way.""

M(r)s Petrauskienė: Yes, I think you are right that they are unfortunate - for instance being exposed to prejudice. However, you don't support tokens of love, right? And in Lithuania, I suppose any children in nuclear heterosexual families, are always happy and have good parents? And if they quiet down, the existing prejudice in Lithuania magically disappear?


"Jonas Pinskus: "I would not appoint a homosexual to a position of responsibility. Of course, each of us has the right to self-determination.""

Mr. Pinskus: So, what you say is that LGBT persons are a lower form of humans?


"Kazimira Danutė Prunskienė: "I agree with the position of the Church. If mankind followed this path, it would certainly degenerate. For starters, consider the demographic processes.""

M(r)s. Prunskienė: For starters regarding demographic processes, does the country of Greece exist today?


"Jurgis Razma: "For the most part I agree with this sort of assessment. It is very good that the position of the Church is specific and open.""

Mr. Razma: So, you agree that it is good that the Church expose its true nature of prejudice?


"Viktoras Rinkevičius: "Clearly, this not normal. Homosexuality is a disease. I think I support the Church.""

Mr. Rinkevičius: You must not be aware of the WHO ICD, right?


"Liudvikas Sabutis: "My position on this issue is in full agreement with that of the Church. This is a general moral and civil position, and I do not know whether it could be different. In a normal society, all its members must be normal.""

Mr. Sabutis: So, you intend to make a perfect Lithuanian of each gender, and clone them, not permitting any deviation from the perfect human? Every other citizen should then be executed, denied citizenship or similar, due to deviation?


"Algimantas Salamakinas: "I agree with the Church. Homosexuality has recently been advertised too much. In Lithuania, the homosexuals have stepped up their activities by demanding various rights. This causes concern.""

Mr. Salamakinas: So, what is the concern? Is it a threat to the society looses control of how people think and being individuals?


"Artūras Skardžius: "Sure, I agree with the Church. I would not want people of traditional orientation to feel that they are in the minority. And this minority should not be given more rights and privileges than the remaining majority of society.""

Mr. Skardžius: Do you think any democratic majority should have more rights than any minority?


"Rimantas Smeto­na: "The Church has finally spoken up publicly about a problem which is more and more actively pushing its way into the life of society. Top officials must also express their opinion. There is, however, a certain fear of talking about this perversion. The opinion that homosexuality is normal was created artificially. Homosexuality is a disease.""

Mr. Smeto­na: Do you think that the sun revolves around planet Tellus? Are you aware of what the sientists has agreed upon in WHO ICD?


"Vaclavas Stankevičius: "I would agree with the position of the Church. Society will degenerate, if it does not resist the spread of homosexuality and does not take concrete action.""

Mr. Stankevičius: Where is the proof of that your society will degenerate? Has there not been any LGBT in Lithuania before the recognition of the LGBT movement in your country? And what is the 'concrete action', banish all LGBT from Lithuania, or even execute them?


"Aldona Staponkienė: "This is a perversion. In our Catholic country with old values and deep-rooted traditions it cannot be the norm.""

M(r)s. Staponkienė: And next step, your muslim citizens? Disabled people?


"Kazys Starkevičius: "They become homosexuals by being pampered and I am not going to tolerate or defend them.""

Mr. Starkevičius: I suppose you think that caning children is a good thing then?


"Nijolė Steiblienė: "It is neither sane nor normal; there is no doubt about it. But I think that it is we heterosexuals who have blown this issue of homosexuality out of proportion.""

M(r)s. Steiblienė: Is it sane or normal to be xenophobic until the brink of hatered? But, I agree with you that some hetero's blown the issue out of proprotion; there is no apparent danger to acknowledge LGBT and give them rights. Look, for instance Sweden and Spain still exist as a society!


"Mindaugas Subačius: "One must understand that homosexuality does not arise out of malevolence. I categorically object to allowing such partnerships to raise children. This is impossible.""

Mr. Subačius: And those children that already are brought up in such partnerships, are those non-existing?


"Gintaras Šileikis: "Each person has the right to decide for himself. Only we must not allow homosexuals to start dictating their conditions to people of traditional orientation. Their defiant behavior must not be tolerated.""

Mr. Šileikis: So, the equal rights for LGBT stops - or should stop - when they state their sexuality to anyone in Lithuania?


"Dalia Teišerskytė: "Let us examine the gay manifesto which we all found in the mailboxes of the Seimas. This is a document that society cannot afford to ignore. After all, it threatens to corrupt our sons.""

M(r)s. Teišerskytė: Is it not corruption to make a misconduct to a fellow human being, go to the church and pay them money for forgiveness and pardon?


"Valdemaras Tomaševskis: "I agree. This phenomenon is defined as a perversion.""

Mr. Tomaševskis: Do the complete physician society in Lithuania refuse to aknowledge WHO ICD?


"Rimvydas Turčinskas: "I agree with the Church. Family is the basis of our state and nation. I do not want conditions for the spread of homosexuality to be created in our country.""

Mr. Turčinskas: So you want to control your society to have separate grades of citizens? What other groups in your perfect world would be less humans than your norm nuclear family? Single fathers?


"Egidijus Vareikis: "Homosexuals try to turn their problems into a global phenomenon; we, on the other hand, should not go out of our way to start exalting their peculiarities.""

Mr. Vareikis: So, you say that LGBT rights is a problem just related to Lithuania?


"Vilija Vertelienė: "As a doctor I think that this is a disease. I strictly opposed to homosexual marriage and to giving any special rights to them.""

M(r)s. Vertelienė: As a doctor, do you refuse to consult the WHO ICD? Are there other Lituanian citizen groups that should not have equal rights, for instance being able to show the token of love, by marriage?


"Julius Veselka: "I agree with the Church. Let them do what they want between themselves but they should not be allowed to demonstrate their superiority over others.""

Mr. Veselka: So they should not be able to show their pride for being themself? Do you have any framed diplomas or similar put up on your wall? Do you ever officially speak to your citizens about the things that you take pride in, about your decisions or yourself?


"Vladimiras Volčiokas: "I agree, of course. I am of the correct sexual orientation. Our country is Christian, after all.""

Mr. Volčiokas: So is Spain, as you probably know?


"Algirdas Vrubliauskas: "I am a practicing Catholic and agree with the Church. I feel pity for these people but this is a deviation from the norm.""
"Pranas Vilkas: "I agree. Homosexuality is not acceptable to our Christian nation and it should not be encouraged.""

Mr. Vrubliauskas and mr Vilkas: So, in your eyes they are not worthy humans?


"Ramunė Visockytė: "My reaction to the Vatican documents is positive. Homosexuality is not a normal phenomenon. How can you put your sex life on public display? I am against their marriages and against allowing them to adopt children." "

M(r)s. Visockytė: Apparently you just put your heterosexualty on display? So, you think that every Lithuanian should not have the same rights as citizens of your country? What about womans, should they have lesser rights as well?


"Edvardas Žakaris: "The Church has made a very strong statement. My opinion is not so categorical but in general I agree with the Church, things should be as nature intended.""

Mr. Žakaris: So, you totally deny that homosexuality is present in nature?


"Henrikas Žukauskas: "This is not only an issue of religion. We are talking about our nationhood. If we have to tolerate their rights, they should respect ours.""

Mr. Žukauskas: And denying some citizens the same rights as every other has, is that acceptable in a modern democracy?


"Zita Žvikienė: "The homosexuals' aim to draw attention towards themselves is their attempt to form the opinion that you are no longer normal if you are not one of them. The statements of the Church will force society to pause and think. I support the hierarchy.""

M(r)s. Žvikienė: So you think the solution is to revert to a patriarchial hierchy is the way?


"Vidmantas Žiemelis: "We Catholics must support the position of the Church. I would not want homosexual marriages to be legalized.""

Mr. Žiemelis: And do you want to make marrige a crime for the rest of your society to get everyone their equal non-rights?


"Manfredas Žymantas: "The state is trying to turn a blind eye to this phenomenon hoping that it will disappear by itself. Such a position, however, is to the advantage of the homosexuals because this makes it easier for them to promote themselves. I support the position of the Church.""

Mr. Žymantas: As a Lithuanian citizen, you don't think you should have the right to promote your opinion? Scary!

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Skrämmande att ha så mycket homofobi i ett grannlands parlament.

Over'n'out